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rrb-Jackson1797
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| Poll |
| What is the Creator of the Universe? |
| God as in the Bible |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Allah as in the Koran |
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11% |
[ 1 ] |
| An Impersonal Life Force |
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33% |
[ 3 ] |
| Nothing, the Universe Just Exists |
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11% |
[ 1 ] |
| Other... |
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44% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 9 |
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| Author |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Jan 05, 2007 - 07:31 PM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 62
Location: UK/SCA
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Welcome back to Subud greenlore. I am so glad when someone comes back, doesn't matter how long they have been away, Latihan always work in you. 
I am not sure if you can trick someone in to try to explain their definitions of God and then argue the answer. (Sounds like a university dissertation.) 
God is what ever you want God to be and it still wont be God. The intellect usually want a more defined answer and that will usually creates arguments, bad feeling. I can't see it would be an end to the dissuasion that would satisfy the intellect unless it would accept that we will never know.
 
A wise man said ones; To know God is wrong and to not know God is wrong.  
Take this metaphor or parable if you like. "The table is most unlikely to know the carpenter that made it but the carpenter knows the table well."
So how can the table explain who and what this carpenter is, other than give a vague explanation of what it believes?
How do you measure infinity? You have to ask a mathematician with interest in metaphysic to answer that question. (I am sure you will get an answer) 
I would say its soooo far out that it becomes deep within.
edit: change of word, guess where. LOL |
Last edited by helenh on Feb 25, 2007 - 01:39 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 07, 2007 - 09:05 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 136
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No, I guess I can't revive this thread with sarcasm. 
But I was serious when I said that "all of the above" could be true. That is, in an infinite universe, many levels of "God" are possible. Like the seven levels of creation that Bapak spoke of, the highest level could be an impersonal infinite intelligence, which could manifest more material or personal forms of itself.
This is the role that the "avatar" serves in the Hindu religion, he is God incarnate in human form, here to assist humankind in it's evolution. Krishna was considered to be an avatar, as was Jesus Christ. But "avatar" is sort of a loaded word, "self-realized" or "enlightened" might be better terms. Supposedly avatars don't come along very often, only at decisive points in human history, prophets like Bapak are born more often - although I believe Bapak objected to being called a prophet. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 07, 2007 - 11:23 PM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 62
Location: UK/SCA
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prophets like Bapak are born more often??
No, you probably can't. Well, I don't understand English sarcasm anyway. I just find most of it rude and not very funny but then again not many understand my sarcasm or humour either.  :lol:But, I am worse off and you, its only 3 mil of us. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 08, 2007 - 06:22 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 136
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"prophets like Bapak are born more often??"
um... let's make that not often enough! 
"Avatar" and "prophet" are just labels anyway so I'd better quite while I'm behind.
Did anyone here ever meet Bapak? |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 09, 2007 - 01:35 AM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 62
Location: UK/SCA
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Yes, I did a few times. Very nice man, friendly with good humour (no sarcasm though)
Maybe this is a bit sarcastic though, at least its funny : A Lady wrote to Bapak and asked if she could open her cat. Bapak wrote back and said; yes, if you ask that cat and the cat say yes.
PS. This happen in the early days of Subud |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 11, 2007 - 01:09 PM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Britain
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I have a bit of a problem with the term "impersonal life force", in that a "life force" must by definition be "personal".
Quote:
Krishna was considered to be an avatar, as was Jesus Christ. But "avatar" is sort of a loaded word, "self-realized" or "enlightened" might be better terms. Supposedly avatars don't come along very often, only at decisive points in human history, prophets like Bapak are born more often - although I believe Bapak objected to being called a prophet.
Greenlore, you're right to say it is a loaded term. Firstly, there were lots and lots of avatars in ancient times, look at all the ones in Greek Mythology - you have Hercules, Achilles, hundreds, if not thousands more. Zeus is said to have got around a lot. Even non-mythical, non-spiritual figures like Alexander the great is said to have been a son of Zeus, and therefore an Avatar.
What changed is only the cultural contexts. In Judaism and Islam the preference is for Prophets and Messengers. In Hinduism, Greeko-Roman Paganism and Christianity (which was linguistically greek/roman rather than hebrew/aramaic), the preference was for Gods made flesh.
Now the cultural context has changed again, so Bapak is not referred to as either, so we just call him the founder or pioneer of Subud. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 12, 2007 - 08:11 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 136
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Thanks for the "welcome back!" to Subud, helen. Frankly though, I'm not sure that I ever left it. I think I continued to do the latihan but called it "meditation."
I don't recall making a conscious decision to stop going to the Subud house to do latihan. It was just that I moved a long way from the nearest group, stopped going regularly to group latihan, and eventually stopped altogether. That was about 25 years ago. Then for some reason at the beginning of last year, I started thinking about Subud again and got the urge to return. So here I am!
But I'm a more patient person now than I was 25 years ago so no longer expect to see remarkable changes overnight - now I allow a fortnight or so. - Mike |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 13, 2007 - 02:31 AM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 62
Location: UK/SCA
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Interesting what you are saying Mike, I have had nearly that same experience. I didn't had a life outside Subud, did all the usually committee things Chairman and helper etc, then I moved 2500 kilometre from the nearest group.
As I have said earlier Latihan don't stop working or go away, it works in everything you do.
I am more humble now, don't take everything so serious. Well, its a lot I could say but....  
I guess it soemthing to do with getting older too.
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