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Post subject: Who runs the show?
 Posted: Apr 08, 2004 - 06:44 AM
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Jiwa Dancer
Joined: Apr 02, 2004
Posts: 23
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Just curious about the diverse beliefs of Subudians.
If you plick "Other..." be specific. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 08, 2004 - 07:40 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Apr 20, 2004
Posts: 18
Location: netherlands
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umm, i cant vote because it allow multiple selections? i see the god in bible and allah in koran as the same. they're the ocean and im rafting somewhere in maas, my sister's floating on the rio tejo, and robdodson's somewhere on the hudson.
or is connecticut not near the hudson, rob?  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 09, 2004 - 07:34 PM
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Directed Jiwa
Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Connecticut USA
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Connecticut is near New York State inside of which is New York City besides which the Hudson flows along, so yes Connecticut near the Hudson, but not as near as New York.
I believe the creator of the Universe is something that we cannot with these feeble brains and hearts and souls even begin to understand, but is never the less very real and all powerful. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 20, 2004 - 06:24 AM
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Jiwa Dancer
Joined: Apr 02, 2004
Posts: 23
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robdodson wrote:
I believe the creator of the Universe is something that we cannot with these feeble brains and hearts and souls even begin to understand, but is never the less very real and all powerful.
If we can't begin to understand it, how can we know that it exists?
Native North Americans believed that the Spaniards were gods for the same reasons. They couldn't understand bearded faces, muskets, and horses.
The fact that the Universe is overwhelmingly complex is not proof of God. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 23, 2004 - 12:18 AM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Lisbon
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| We run the show!! |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 23, 2004 - 12:42 AM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Lisbon
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robdodson wrote:
feeble brains and hearts and souls
FEEBLE?!?!?!?!?!?! FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEBLE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
I could write down my whole How I See things. How I structure Life. Where, why, when, what and who is God.
But from all the books I read, all the discussions I have(about this topic) All I hear, see and hear.
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It all comes down to the same. A wordless feeling.
Who runs the show? Whomever you want it to be. It's what you believe in. God is a personal experience, for you are a God. For we are Gods, for we are God. Everything is God. God.  It's that simple. God is everything there is and all there is not. The seen and the unseen. The first and ultimate reality. The father, son and the holy spirit. The body, mind and spirit. The here, the there and the space between. The id, the ego and the super ego. The conscious, subconscious and the super conscious. The energy, matter and the antimatter. The now, here and the nowhere. Mind, heart and soul. The past, present and future. The physical, meta-physical and the non physical. The Alpha and the Omega.
As you can see, you can give words, all the words you can muster. You can say God is this, God is that, God is, God is not. God...
Where does that lead to? Do we need to have a formed definition of God to prove to other that we believe?
Now for God and Ala. I do not believe in religion. Religion teaches you that struggle is the point of it all. This is a false teaching. It is in not struggling that the process proceeds. It is in surrendering that the victory is won.
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 28, 2004 - 06:53 PM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Britain
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"Religion teaches you that struggle is the point of it all" - I don't know why you think that. My religion doesn't say that. I always thought that religion in the general sense said that love was the point of it all.
"God is a personal experience, for you are a God. For we are Gods, for we are God. Everything is God. God. It's that simple. God is everything there is and all there is not" - I don't agree with the logic of this. It is a very particular religious doctrine. Of course different people mean different things when they say God, but when I think of God is, I don't think anything which is created by something else can be classified as God. That’s what makes the dualism we have in Subud so appealing – it seems to put everything in its right place. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 29, 2004 - 12:49 PM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Lisbon
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Well. To me, whatever gives you rules to worship God is wrong!! There are no rules!!
And well, regarding the other I'm glad you disagree with me. It's what humans do best is disagreeing. And discussing how I see God in the internet... :p Not about to do it, don't even do it with myself.
Peace!! |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 29, 2004 - 11:21 PM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Lisbon
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What I meant being glad that you disagree with me is that you're proving your onw pont of view.
But lets do somethign different. I've laid out my belief. And there is nothing you can say, any priest say even Bapak say to prove me wrong. Cause I believe in this and I embrace God with this.
So disagreeing with each other leads to nowhere. So I would like to read your way. But my answer would be, wow, that's interesting. Not going to disagree with no ones belief. Even if your doctrine was to kill people I couldn't disagree if you were sureendering to God that way. No?
Just for the record when I write these things I'm very calm, I'm not all jumpy defending my point of view. It's that I'm afraid you get that from these posts.
Chiill!! |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 29, 2004 - 11:29 PM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Lisbon
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I just noticed this in your post!!
I hope I got it wrong!!
Quote:
I don't think anything which is created by something else can be classified as God.
? Everything is God! What do you think you are? Inferior to God? You're God, we're God. We're all made of the same "stuff".
What do you call your sons? Do you not see yourself in yours son? Do you not see your Love in your baby?
God does the same!! God sees his Love in us. We are God. God is us!
I think it as come to the time where we stop putting God there and ourselves here!! Stop feeling that God is superior and we are inferior!!
We are all the same. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 30, 2004 - 01:33 AM
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Jiwa Dancer
Joined: Apr 02, 2004
Posts: 23
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VitorMartins wrote:
Well. To me, whatever gives you rules to worship God is wrong!! There are no rules!!
Isn't "There are no rules!" itself a rule?
I don't think that anyone can argue that you're wrong. Not because you're right, but because you've not made any real statement.
VitorMartins wrote:
Everything is God!
If I say "Everything is milk," what does this change? So what? There's still a world that we experience, and there are still unanswered questions:
What happens when this bit of milk called Ryan dies? What is the purpose of that piece of milk? Where did all the milk come from?
The statement "Everything is God" is meaningless. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 30, 2004 - 08:39 AM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Lisbon
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| And this is pointeless. |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 01, 2004 - 11:24 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Britain
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Quote:
What do you call your sons? Do you not see yourself in yours son? Do you not see your Love in your baby?
Well, I'm a bit young for that yet. But any way - children are not created by their parents, they are created by God. The reason all human beings are equal is because God created us that way.
There would be no point in worshiping God if he was not beyond human intelligence. God is perfect, we are not. At least, I know I'm not.
Love and peace  |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 02, 2004 - 01:36 AM
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A long way to the 7th Level
Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Lisbon
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Henry.
The way I see it.
I am perfect.
Not talking on the outside, cause in this Life a thing is either bad or good.
On the outside, what we call "reality" things are always classified thru polarities. Good, bad, right wrong, tall short, cold hot, stupid intelligent etc etc etc...
I am perfect on the inside. The thing we call as our soul our spirit. In this there is no polarity regiment. Innerly our soul just is. Our soul is God.
To me God is not a thing that is in a place creating things, deciding something, judging others. To me God is all there is. I also do believe there are things beyond God...
To me thinking that God is superior, thinking that God is not me puts It in a place where I can't reach It. To have something superior to us makes us afraid. Afraid in a sense that we might be doing something It doesn't like or approve. Cause in God there are no polarities, there are no judgments, there is nothing. But we're in God now, and have all these things surrounding us. So God is everything and nothing at the same time.
We, our stuff are not a just bunch of "stuff". We're not God's chessboard. We're it, we're God.
Worshiping God? Do I do it when I go to Latihan, or when people go to church or pray? I worship God while I'm brushing my teeth, while I take the bus to work, when I dream, when I say I Love You to someone. It's impossible not to worship God. Life is an ode to God. To us. To God.
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Post subject:
Posted: May 03, 2004 - 10:49 AM
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7th Level Skirter
Joined: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 161
Location: Britain
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Vitor 
It somewhat defeats the purpose of saying everything is God if you are still separating the outer and the inner, which implies the inner is God and the outer is not. And though you say that if there is a difference between us and God, it would create difference, and make us afraid of him. Yet you go on to say there are things beyond God.
Shouldn't this mean that the real God is one of those things, beyond the finite lesser god with which you identify the human soul? I see the Latihan as connecting us with the absolute God, who is infinite in scope, and so different from us by nature. Not just a kindly soul that wraps us in a warm blanket, and tells us we are all wonderful little gods and the universe isn't all that big really, so we don't need to feel afraid that anything is superior to us.
All we need is love |
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